Answering Vivekananda & Vedanta

Answering Vivekananda & Vedanta

Wednesday 28 November 2012

Criticism no 7:

 " And what your European pandits say about the Aryan's sweeping from some foreign land, snatching away the lands of the aboriginals and settling India by exterminating them, is all pure nonsense, foolish talk. Strange, that our Indian scholars too say amen to them, and all these monstrous lies are taught to our boys. This is very bad indeed. In what Veda, in what Sukta, so you find that the Aryans came to India from a foreign country? Where do you get the idea that they slaughtered the wild aborigines? What do you gain by talking such nonsense?"

                                                  -- [ ` Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda ', 1963, p.534-535 ] 




Response: 



What do they say ?

M.K. Gandhi says, "Hindus (Aryan high caste Hindus) are not considered to be original inhabitants of India."
                                          ----- M.K. Gandhi, Hindu Dharma, Bombay, 1991, p. 33.


The coming of the Aryans into India raised new problems - racial and political. The conquered race, the Dravidians had a long background of civilization behind them, but there is a little doubt that the Aryans considered themselves vastly superior to them and a wide gulf seperated the two.                           

                                         ------- Jwaharlal Nehru in 'Discovery of India' (Page 62).

The Ramayana story is one of Aryan expansion to the South. - "Discovery of India" (Page 82).

On the contrary, the Aryans had to learn the languages peculiar to those races and to adopt a portion atleast of their civilization - "Collected work of Sir R. G. Bhadarkar" (Vol III at page 10)

Savarkar: "Hindutva". Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, Savarkar Samagra:

“ After all there is throughout this world so far as man is concerned but a single race - the human race, kept alive by one common blood, the human blood. All other talk is at best provisional, a makeshift and only relatively true. (...) Even as it is, not even the aborigines of the Andamans are without some sprinkling of the so-called Aryan blood in their veins and vice-versa. Truly speaking all that one can claim is that one has the blood of all mankind in one’s veins. The fundamental unity of man from pole to pole is true, all else only relatively so”.

Complete Works of Vinayak Damodar Savarkar in 10 volumes, ISBN 81-7315-331-0

“The Aryans were so barbaric that they did not even have a word for brick in Sanskrit “.

 ` History of Science and Technology in Ancient India - The Beginnings ' - D. Chattopadhyaya,
Firma KLM Pvt. Ltd. Calcutta 1986 an excellent rebuff of the opponents of the Aryan invasion idea; quotes from all the following ref's of Kosambi and Chanda .

L.Woolley, `History of mankind: Culture and Scientific Development', Vol. I, Pt. 2, pp.353-365, The Beginning of Civilization, UNESCO 1963 .

The Followers and worshipers of Indra and other dieties were called the Devas and the opponents of the Indra worship were called Asuras, and these became the hateful terms to one party or other. - A.C. Dass, M.A., B.L. in "Rig Vedic India" at page 101.

The Ramayana distinguishes the Suras , who indulged themselves in liquors from Asuras, who abstained from them. - The Historians, History of world (Vol II Page 521).

In 1894, the curator of the Department of Prehistoric Anthropology at the U.S. National Museum wrote:

 "[the swastika] is believed by some to have been the oldest Aryan symbol. In the estimation of others, it represents Brahma, Vishnu and Siva."This particular example is said to date from the 1st millennium BCE. It was found near Gilan, Iran, and is now at the National Museum of Iran.

       -------- Wilson, Thomas (1894), Swastika the Earliest Known Symbol and Its Migrations: The Earliest Known Symbol, and Its Migrations, Report of the U. S. National Museum, p. 770.

"After the German invasion of Prague in March 1939, Indian opinion on Germany polarized sharply into two camps: those who would be loyal to Britain in the event of a war between Britain and Germany and those who would not. The Hindu Mahasabha adopted a particularly strong pro-German position, assuming a close congruence between the Aryan cult of Nazism and Hindu nationalism." --------------------(Hitler's Priestess, New York University Press 1998, p.66)

Heinrich Himmler (the Reichsfuhrer of the SS), the person ordered by Adolf Hitler to implement the final solution (Holocaust), told his personal masseur Felix Kersten that he always carried with him a copy of the ancient Aryan scripture, the Bhagavad Gita because it relieved him of guilt about what he was doing — he felt that like the warrior Arjuna, he was simply doing his duty without attachment to his actions
                                            .---- Padfield, Peter Himmler New York:1990--Henry Holt Page 402

Himmler was also interested in Buddhism and his institute Ahnenerbe sought to mix some traditions from Hinduism and Buddhism.
                                            -----P.7, New Religions and the Nazis, By Karla Powne


Scientific proof ?

." Geneticist and anthropologist Spencer Wells states that "The Aryans came from outside India. We actually have genetic evidence for that. Very clear genetic evidence from a marker that arose on the southern steppes of Russia and the Ukraine around 5,000 to 10,000 years ago. And it subsequently spread to the east and south through Central Asia reaching India." M17 "shows that there was a massive genetic influx into India from the steppes within the past 10,000 years.Taken with the archaeological data, we can say that the old hypothesis of an invasion of people – not merely their language – from the steppe appears to be true."
                                                                                                               ------ Wells (2002:167)

In the study by M.J Bamshad and his team they wrote, "Our results demonstrate that for biparentally inherited autosomal markers, genetic distances between upper, middle, and lower castes are significantly correlated with rank; upper castes are more similar to Europeans than to Asians; and upper castes are significantly more similar to Europeans than are lower castes."

                                               (http://jorde-lab.genetics.utah.edu/elibrary/Bamshad_2001a.pdf)

Originally proposed in the late 18th century in an attempt to explain connections between Sanskrit and European languages, it is today deprecated by academics who favor the Kurgan model.

               --------Cavalli-Sforza (2000:152) "The Aryan invasions of Iran, Pakistan, and India broughtIndo-European languages to Dravidian-speaking areas."

“Genetic evidence suggests European migrants may have influenced the origins of India's caste system".

 Genome News Network (J. Craig Venter Institute). http://www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/05_01/Indo-European.shtml. 

Kazanas argues that this indicates that the Harappan civilization must have been dominated by Indo-Aryan speakers, supposing that the arrival of Indo-Aryan migrants in Late Harappan times to the remnants of a Indus Valley Civilization formerly stretching over vast area could not have resulted in the suppression of the entire native hydronymy.

Kazanas, Nicholas 2001b - Indigenous Indoaryans and the Rgveda - Journal of Indo-European Studies, volume 29, pages 257-93.



In what Veda, in what Sukta?

Swamiji asks : In what Veda, in what Sukta, do you find that the Aryans came to India from a foreign country?

Aryan’s à Aryan (IPA: /'ərɪən/) is an English language loanword. As the American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language states at the beginning of its definition, "[it] is one of the ironies of history that Aryan, a word nowadays referring to the blond-haired, blue-eyed physical ideal of Nazi Germany, originally referred to a people who looked vastly different. Its history starts with the ancient Indo-Iranians, peoples who inhabited parts of what are now Iran, Afghanistan, and India."

Dasyus à Dravidian people also Dravidians refers to the peoples that natively speak languages belonging to the Dravidian language family. Populations of speakers are found mostly in southern India. Other Dravidian peoples are found in parts of central India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran. Scholars widely hold that the Dravidian peoples were the originators of the Indus Valley Civilization. Recent genetic studies revealed that these people were indeed of Indian subcontinent origin. Dravidian peoples with the most speakers include Telugus, Tamils, Kannadigas and Malayalis. Populations with fewer speakers include Gonds and Tuluvas.


In Rig Veda III:34:9 Indra killed the Dasyus (dark skinned natives) and "gave protection to the Aryan color."

They arrogantly proclaim, "Let those who have no weapons suffer sorrow” (Rig Veda IV:5:14.)]

Indra is praised for killing thousands of the abject tribes of Dasas with his arrow and taking great vengeance with "murdering weapons." (Rig Veda IV:28:3−4)

 One hymn mentions sending thirty thousand Dasas "to slumber" and another hymn sixty thousand slain. A hymn dedicated to the weapons of war (Rig Veda VI:75) refers to a warrior "armed with mail," using a bow to win cattle and subdue all regions, "upstanding in the car the skillful charioteer guides his strong horses on whithersoe'er he will." The arrows had iron mouths and shafts "with venom smeared" that "not one be left alive."

Hymn VII:83 begins, "Looking to you and your alliance, O ye men, armed with broad axes they went forward, fain for spoil. Ye smote and slew his Dasa and his Aryan enemies."

The basic belief of the prayers and sacrifices is that they will help them to gain their desires and overcome their enemies, as in Rig Veda VIII:31:15: "The man who, sacrificing, strives to win the heart of deities will conquer those who worship not."

"He, much invoked, hath slain Dasyus and Simyus, after his wont, and laid them low with arrows. The mighty thunderer with his fair−complexioned friends won the land, the sunlight, and the waters." −−Rig Veda I:100:18.

The ancient singer praises the god who "destroyed the Dasyans and protected the Aryan colour." [ Rg.V. III.34.9 ]

Numerous are the references to "the black skin" `Krishnam Vacham' [ Rg.V. IX.41.1, Sama Veda I.491, II.242 ] which is mentioned with abhorrence.

Again " stromy gods who rush on like furious bulls and scatter the black skin." [ Rg.V. IX.73.5 ] 

The singers mention "the black skin, the hated of Indra", being swept ourtof heaven [ RgV. IX.73.5 ] "Indra protected in battle the Aryan worshipper, he subdued the lawless for Manu, he conqured the black skin." 
 [ Rg.V. I.130.8 ]  

The sacrificer poured out thanks to his god for "scattering the slave bands of black descent", and for stamping out " the vile Dasyan colour." [ Rg.V. II.20.7, II.12.4 ]
 
"Dasam varnam adharam" [ Rg.V. II.12.4 ]

Indra is called Puroha or Purandhara, `sacker of cities' - Indra overthrew 100 Puras made of stone ( asmanmayi ) for his worshipper Divodasa [ RgV 4.30.20 ], evidently belonging to Sambara who is a Dasa ( non-Aryan/demon ) of the mountain [ RgV 6.26.5 ]

The famous Harappa hymn of the Rig Veda describes with praise Indra's destruction of Harappa
" In aid of Abhyavartin Cayamana, Indra destroyed the seed of Virasakha.
"At Hariyupiyah he smote the vanguard of the Vrcivans, and the rear fled frighted." 
                                                                                                                   -- [ Rg.V. XXVII.5 ] 



Some more Proof’s from Rig Veda Proving it to be composed OUTSIDE India


1.The Indus Valley Civilization was quite advanced and urbanized for its era. Based on the IAM, he migrating Aryans, who wrote the Rig Veda, would have had some contact with the Harappans before settling in their lands. The Aryans would also have begun to use some of the resources the Harappans possessed; however, the Rig Veda possesses some gaps which indicate it was composed prior to the first use of these resources in India.

 A new date for the Rgveda by N Kazanas published in Philosophy and Chronology, 2000,  G C Pande & D Krishna, special issue of Journal of Indian Council of Philosophical Research (June, 2001)

2. The Rig-Veda knows no silver. It knows ayas (metal or copper/bronze) and candra or hiran-ya (gold) but not silver. Silver is denoted by rajatám híran-yam literally ‘white gold’ and appears in post-Rigvedic texts. There is a generally accepted demarcation line for the use of silver at around 4000 BC and this metal is archaeologically attested in the Harappan Civilization.

 Allchins 1969: 285
 Rao 1991: 171
Allchins et. all cited by Kazanas 2000:1
G C Pande & D Krishna, special issue of Journal of Indian Council of Philosophical Research (June, 2001)

3. The Harappan culture is also unknown to the RV. The characteristic features of the Harappan culture are urban life, large buildings, permanently erected fire altars and bricks. There is no word for brick in the Rig Veda and iswttakaa (brick) appears only in post-Rigvedic texts.

(Kazanas 2000:13) & G C Pande & D Krishna, special issue of Journal of Indian Council of Philosophical Research (June, 2001)

The Rigvedic altar is a shallow bed dug in the ground and covered with grass (e.g. RV 5.11.2, 7.43.2-3; Parpola 1988: 225). Fixed brick-altars are very common in post-Rigvedic texts.

 Rig-Veda is pre-Harappan by N Kazanas

4. The RV mentions no rice or cotton. A compound term is used which later referred to rice cakes used for sacrificial purposes, but the word vrīhí, meaning 'rice', does not occur. Rice was found in at least three Harappan sites: Rangpur (2000 BCE - 1500 BCE), Lothal (c 2000 BCE) and Mohenjodaro (c 2500 BCE) as Piggott, Grist and others testify. Yet, despite the importance of the rice in ritual in later times, the Rig Veda knows nothing of it. The cultivation of cotton is well attested in the Harappan civilization and is found at many sites thereafter.

Piggott 1961: 259
Grist 1965
Rao 1991: 24, 101, 150 etc
Piggott et. all cited by Kazanas 2000:13
Elst 1999: Ch 5.3.10
Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate by Koenraad Elst
G C Pande & D Krishna, special issue of Journal of Indian Council of Philosophical Research

5. Nakshatra were developed in 2400 BCE, they are important in a religious context yet the Rig Veda does not mention this, which suggests the Rig Veda is before 2400 BCE. The youngest book only mentions constellations,a concept known to all cultures, without specifying them as lunar mansions.
 RV 10:85:2

 Bernard Sergent: Genèse de l’Inde, 1997 p.118 cited by Elst 1999: Ch 5.5) Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate by Koenraad Elst

6. On the other hand, it has been claimed that the Rigveda has no term for "sword", while Bronze swords were used aplenty in the Bactrian culture and in Pirak. Ralph Griffith uses “sword” twelve times in his translation, including in the old books 5 and 7, but in most cases a literal translation would be more generic "sharp implement" (e.g. vāśī), the transition from "dagger" to "sword" in the Bronze Age being a gradual process.

7. The fore-mentioned features are found in post Rigvedic texts – the Samhitas, the Brahmanas and fully in the Sutra literature. For instance, brick altars are mentioned in Satapatha Brahmanaa 7.1.1.37, or 10.2.3.1 etc. Rice ( vrihi ) is found in AV 6.140.2; 7.1.20; etc. Cotton karpasa appears first in Gautama’s (1.18) and in Bandhāyana's (14.13.10) Dharmasūtra. The fact of the convergence of the post-Rigvedic texts and the Harappan culture was noted long ago by archaeologists. Bridget and F. Raymond Allchin stated unequivocally that these features are of the kind “described in detail in the later Vedic literature” (1982: 203).

Based on these set of statements, OIT proponents argue that the whole of the RV, except for some few passages which may be of later date, must have been composed prior to Indus Valley Civilization.

 A new date for the Rgveda by N Kazanas published in Philosophy and Chronology, 2000, ed G C Pande & D Krishna, special issue of Journal of Indian Council of Philosophical Research (June, 2001)



What will happen  if Aryan Invasion Theory is ACCEPTED ?

The Aryan invasion theory denies the Indian origin of
India’s predominant culture, but gives the credit for
Indian culture to invaders from elsewhere.

It even teaches that some of the most revered books of
Hindu scripture are not actually Indian, and it
devalues India’s culture by portraying it as less
ancient than it actually is.

The theory  included unacceptably racist ideas:

It suggested that Indian culture was not a culture in
its own right, but a synthesis of elements from other
cultures.

It implied that Hinduism was not an authentically
Indian religion but the result of cultural imperialism.

It suggested that Indian culture was static, and only
changed under outside influences.

It suggested that the dark-skinned Dravidian people of
the South of India had got their faith from
light-skinned Aryan invaders.

It implied that indigenous people were incapable of
creatively developing their faith.

It suggested that indigenous peoples could only
acquire new religious and cultural ideas from other
races, by invasion or other processes.

It accepted that race was a biologically based concept
(rather than, at least in part, a social construct)
that provided a sensible way of ranking people in a
hierarchy, which provided a partial basis for the
caste system.

It provided a basis for racism in the Imperial context
by suggesting that the peoples of Northern India were
descended from invaders from Europe and so racially
closer to the British Raj.

It gave a historical precedent to justify the role and
status of the British Raj, who could argue that they
were transforming India for the better in the same way
that the Aryans had done thousands of years earlier.

It downgraded the intellectual status of India and its
people by giving a falsely late date to elements of
Indian science and culture.


Ref:


                      Further, this desire by Hindutva supporters to “prove” by any means that Aryans are “indigenous” people directly relate to their contemporary political agenda back in India of distinguishing the “indigenous Aryan Hindus” from “foreign Muslim and Christian invaders” and thereby characterizing India’s Muslim and Christian minorities as “traitors” that need to be marginalized and persecuted. Inspite of Innumerable Evidences & Proofs of Aryan Invasion, yet some Hindus are Trying to Disprove it in Vain. 

“Satya meva Jayate” 

Truth alone Trumphs!

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For further reading:

Aryans Invaded Dravidian India



1 comment:

  1. ur most foolish person i ever seen in my life ,my ancestor are from lands of sindhus , they lived there from last 3500 until 1947 . we belong arora kashtriya clan we never heard about aryans

    arya means noble in Sanskrit its not a race u foolish

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